Genres and Suites

MC: I have written extensively about a small group within the group of Blue Note musicians in the sixties whose playing and composing was progressive and forward thinking. As an example, something like Wayne Shorter’s The All Seeing Eye, to me, seems almost like a new form of modern classical, but using jazz instruments and leaving space for the soloist to improvise. Chamber music, but not using the traditional chamber instruments and not “chamber jazz” which is a genre well exemplified by both Chico Hamilton and the Modern Jazz Quartet. On any of the more progressive dates did anyone theorize or discuss names for this new genre or was it not an issue?

JS: I’m not sure the music was categorized. But it certainly can be defined as “a work of enduring excellence.” I loved doing the albums. I believe playing Wayne’s music was the most creative and fulfilling that I’ve ever felt on recording dates.

MC: How much of what was going on in the mid-sixties socially and politically influenced the more cerebral albums you were on?

JS: I think that Max Roach and Leon Thomas’ music were quite politically influenced by the rhythms of unrest and upheaval. I also wrote my Song of Courage Suite. Many musicians were influenced by the volatile and restless energies permeating the atmosphere. James Brown wrote several songs to encourage black people to embrace themselves. One in particular, which you may know: “Say It Loud, (I’m Black and I’m Proud).” I think we all know the tragedies that occurred during the ‘60s. President J.F. Kennedy, Malcolm X, Dr. King, Fannie Lou Hamer, the four little girls in Birmingham and many more atrocities.

An Emotion of Notes

MC: Whether you were doing one of the more forward-thinking sessions or a more straight-out hard bop date, I have always noticed a cerebral aspect to your playing. Cerebral but with a fire which is what I think attracts people. For your playing or writing do you have any particular process?

JS: I think that I’m an emotional player, and I express myself to the people through my instrument. Everything seems to swell inside of me and explode through my instrument. I’m very intense when I play and I can feel the energy in the room, and that’s what motivates my creative nature. When I write, I just choose an instrument and wait for the melody that comes out.

MC: It seems like by the mid-sixties anyone who was trying to stretch the form of jazz, but not incorporating rock influences, was just labeled “avant-garde.” For these people and the more outright traditionalists, live and studio work was hard to come by. The so called avant-garde seemed to have it worse, not even being able or willing to land television jobs as some had to. People like Eric Dolphy, Steve Lacy, Mal Waldron and Archie Shepp emigrated to Europe. Did you ever consider that an option during this time?

JS: Maybe they met someone that invited them to stay and that offered them work? I didn’t seem to run into anyone like that. I got married in 1963, and both my daughters were born in the sixties. I wonder if these guys had someone in the states that interested them? I think that many variables have a lot to do with your choices, not so much that we were traditionalist and weren’t able to find work here. We lived in a segregated society and it’s still very largely that way. Black musicians still are in the minority in being hired for studio work or able to live by playing music alone. Have you asked Archie Shepp why he still lives in Europe, even today?

Leading and Teaching

MC: Surprisingly, it was not until after you left Blue Note in 1975 you made your first recording as a leader titled The Legacy of Duke Ellington. Why so long a wait?

JS: I think I was waiting for an offer. Alfred Lion thought I should record for Blue Note but he wanted me to play commercial music like boogaloo and I was not interested in playing that kind of music. I was perfecting, or trying to perfect, my jazz progressions and vocabulary. I thought it was like telling an opera singer or Frank Sinatra to sing rock and roll. Fortunately, a fellow came along named Howard Gabriel while I was still at Livingston College, and asked me to do a record date of my choosing, thus my first recording date on a very small label called Storyville, which probably no longer exists. [The label is still lives and can be found at www.storyvillerecords.com. --MC]

MC: This was also the year you received a bachelor’s degree in music from Livingston College. You were also teaching flute there at the same time. How long had you been teaching and what made you first get into the educational aspect of music?

JS: I returned to school on the G.I. Bill because Larry Ridley had structured and become the chairman for Livingston College, Rutgers University’s first Jazz Department. I was hired as an adjunct professor for about two years. I enjoyed teaching the students and often taught them by performing songs with them, as opposed to just teaching theory.

Song of Courage

MC: The National Endowment for the Arts honored you with an award. You used the funds to finance the performance of your suite, A Song of Courage. This was performed with full orchestra and choir at the Voorhees Chapel at Rutgers University. This was a suite inspired by Dr. Martin Luther King-- you have in your oeuvre several other pieces also inspired by other civil rights leaders.

JS: I was very pleased to receive this grant, and was able to have a performance of the suite as you mentioned, at Voorhees Chapel, at Rutgers. It was not recorded but I did get a write-up by the Livingston College Newspaper. I think of that presentation as a trial run. There was just not enough money to do justice to the presentation, although there were some inspired moments. A Song of Courage is dedicated to our heroes and sheroes, but particularly mentions Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. This suite tells the story of the sixties, as I felt the vibrations.

MC: How long did it take to rehearse and get the various components, voice, and orchestra up to speed?

JS: I spent quite a bit of quality time working with an arranger musician friend, Sam Brown. I would go over to his house, (my wife Jean and I) and we would work together for hours on end. He did his best with the resources we had but it simply was not enough. I have recorded several songs from the suite: “Time to Go,” “Oracle,” “Gotstabe A Better Way,” “Give It Up,” “New World Comin’,” and more. There were about ten songs written for the suite. It was never recorded on one album, but songs were played individually, with different musicians and on different labels.

MC: Will we get to now hear your suites via release through your label?

JS: I hope so. Ubiquitously.

Speetones

MC: You have your own record label now, Speetones. Artistic freedom has to be one of the main appeals for you. How do you now approach recording?

JS: I recorded live at a club in Brooklyn, owned by Bob Myers. It had such great vibes at the space but it really didn’t have enough space for the engineer to listen to the sound so that basically it is what you’d call “au natural.” I am the owner, producer (along with my family) and the artists. But who knows, it’s a start!

Recent Happenings

MC: In 2006 you went to France to do a trio recording with Pierre Christophe Trio. How did that date come about? The album is fantastic. For anybody not familiar with your post Blue Note work, it is the perfect place to start. Your tone is nice and tart, like a good calvados, without ever being shrill. Underlying that is a certain muscularity without the usual accompanying discordance. The album has a lot of familiar covers. Who chose the program?

Down With It

MC: You recently did a three night stint in April at the club Iridium (NYC) with Freddie Hubbard which garnered some good reviews. How did the reunion come about? How long had it been since the two of you had played together?

JS: David Weiss is working with Freddie and he asked me to be a part of this. It’s a little different now, we’re both older and the vicissitudes of life obviously have played their part. I don’t think we’ll be playing together again in the near future – but one never knows, does one?

Russian Tour

MC: You just did a tour of Russia--what did you do over there?

JS: I was booked by a man named Arkadi Owrutski for events in Kiev and Ukraine. It wasn’t really for me because it was not really about the music as much as I would have liked. Nevertheless, it was an experience and I had the opportunity to see another (not so familiar) part of Russia.

The Future

MC: Where can fans keep track of your touring schedule and new releases?

JS: I hope to be listing my schedule on my website: www.speetones.com or via jamesspauldingexpressions at myspace.

MC: Well, this is my one stock question. I always ask because it always interests me. Do you have any dream project which you have yet to do and what is it?

JS: I would like to get the funding to have my suite A Song of Courage perfected and performed at Lincoln Center.

MC: This has been a great honor for me. In my columns I have always tried to steer people towards jazz that has been overlooked or slipped through the cracks. While your sixties body of work is compelling and still gives great pleasure, I hope this serves to get notice to the equally rewarding later body of work which you continue to add to. Thanks for it all.

JS: Happy New Year! I hope to fulfill all my aspirations I’ve been distracted from doing previously, and to live up to the fans’ belief in my musicianship qualities.

Selected Discography

James Spaulding & Pierre Christophe Trio, DOWN WITH IT! Live at The Sunside (Disques Futura & Marge, 2007)

Ricky Ford, Saxotic Stamp (Muse Records, 2006)

James Spaulding, Round To It (Speetones, 2005)

Billy Bang, Vietnam: Reflections (Justin Time, 2005)

D.D. Jackson, Suite For New York (Justin Time, 2003)

Abbey Lincoln, It's Me (Verve, 2003)

Sun Ra, Spaceship Lullaby - Chicago 1954-60 (Unheard Music Series , 2003)

Dwight O. Carson, For My Brothers (Nappy Edges, 2003)

Alvin Queen, Ashanti (Nilva Records Stereo NQ-34,2002)

Eddie Landsberg, Remembering Eddie Jefferson (Berghem,2002 )

James Spaulding Quintet, Blues Up and Over (Speetones, 2001)

David Murray Octet, Octet Plays Trane (Justin Time, 2000)

James Spaulding, Escapade (HighNote, 1999)

Haunted Melodies, Songs of Rahsaan Roland Kirk (Metropolitan Records, 1998)

Bheki Mseleku, Beauty of Sunrise (Verve, 1997)

James Spaulding, The Smile of the Snake (HighNote, 1996)

David Murray, Dark Star (The Music of The Grateful Dead) (Astor Place, 1996)

David Murray Octet, Picasso (DIW, 1995)

David Murray, South of the Border (DIW, 1995)

James Spaulding, Blues Nexus (Muse, 1993)

World Saxophone Quartet, Moving Right Along (Black Saint, 1993)

David Murray, David Murray Big Band Conducted by Lawrence "Butch" Morris (Columbia, 1991)

Donald Brown, Cause And Effect (Muse, 1991)

James Spaulding, Songs of Courage (Muse, 1991)

Bobby Hutcherson, Ambos Mundos (Landmark Records, 1989)

Sun Ra, Purple Night (A&M Records, 1989)

James Spaulding, Gotstabe A Better Way! (Muse, 1988)

James Spaulding, Brilliant Corners (Muse, 1988)

Sun Ra, Somewhere Else (Rounder, 1988)

David Murray Octet, Hope Scope (Black Saint, 1987)

Ricky Ford, Looking Ahead (Muse Records, 1986)

Russel Webster, Uncle Funkenstein (Ubiquity Record, 1983)

Mark Morganelli and the jazz forum all-stars, Live on Broadway (Jazz Forum Records, 1982)

James Spaulding Plays the Legacy of Duke Ellington (Storyville, 1976)

Charles Tolliver, Impact (Strata-East, 1975)

The Duke Ellington Orchestra, Continuum (Fantasy, 1975)

Archie Shepp, Kwanza (Impulse, 1974)